How Nora Ephron’s Rom-Coms Shaped Materialists: Celine Song Breaks Down Every Reference (Exclusive)

From the moment the trailer for Materialists dropped, it seemed like filmmaker Celine Song had tapped into a yearning for the heyday of mid-to-late ’90s rom-coms. Everything about it screamed nostalgia for the long-overlooked genre — a cheesy voiceover, using the backdrop of New York City as a character and a love triangle featuring outrageously attractive stars.

Back in 2023, Song proved how adept she was at cultivating the dynamics of love triangles with her Oscar-nominated feature debut Past Lives. And in her new dramedy Materialists, she proves it wasn’t just a fluke. In fact, she seems to have mastered the art of chemistry, pairing Chris Evans, Pedro Pascal and Dakota Johnson together on-screen.

It turns out that Song found a lot of inspiration from a certain legendary filmmaker: Nora Ephron. According to her, the “queen of rom-coms” was the backbone of Materialists — from a series of vignettes inspired by When Harry Met Sally… to the witty dialogue to a final scene in Central Park. “I’m obsessed with Nora Ephron,” Song tells PEOPLE.

According to the writer and director, the film’s heroine Lucy (Johnson, 35) was largely inspired by how “passionate” Ephron’s characters are about their work.

“It’s them being very professional women who are wondering if they’re capable of love, if it’s possible for them to feel love or be loved, or if they’re worthy of it,” says Song, 36. “They’re the predecessors for Lucy.”

She also found inspiration in acclaimed directors Jim Brooks, Billy Wilder and Mike Lee. “It’s the filmmakers who are really interested in discovering the extraordinary, very dramatic things that we do, which is love,” she says. “To me, love is the bravest, most incredibly moving and extraordinary thing that we do, so it just feels really special to get to make cinema about it.”

The film follows Lucy, a thriving matchmaker whose professional life becomes messy after she meets a potential new lover named Harry (Pascal, 50) at an event and also reconnects with her ex John (Evans, 43) the same night. As she navigates both Harry and John vying for her affection, Lucy also encounters the perils of dating and finds herself at a crossroads in her career.

Below, Song tells PEOPLE about all of the Ephron references in Materialists. (Note: Spoilers ahead.)

The Matchmaking Client Interviews

Through a series of vignettes in When Harry Met Sally…, seven pairs of couples in their golden years animatedly recall how they fell in love. While it was actors who played the couples, the anecdotes were real — and told to director Rob Reiner. Song directly referenced that sequence in Materialists with a series of matchmaking client interviews, who revealed their laundry list of requirements for a partner.

“It’s kind of like those couples interviews, and that’s why we did straight to camera, like they’re being interviewed,” says Song. Essentially, Song created these interludes to expand the world of Materialists.

“That’s what really pulls When Harry Met Sally… together because then you’re not just seeing these two, amazing characters figure out love,” adds Song. “We also see the bigger picture of what we’re dealing with when it comes to the actual themes of the film.”

The Chemistry Between Lucy and John

Throughout her career, Ephron was influenced by Jane Austen, and specifically Pride and Prejudice. While it wasn’t a period drama, You’ve Got Mail‘s Kathleen and Joe are at odds with one another a la Elizabeth Bennet and Mr. Darcy — arguing, rife with misconceptions and misunderstood. It’s also no coincidence that Kathleen’s favorite book is Pride and Prejudice. In Materialists, Song also channels the tension of Pride and Prejudice and You’ve Got Mail, through flashbacks of Lucy and John as they appear to fundamentally misunderstand each other’s material wants and needs. (Lucy begins to resent John for being “poor.”)

But that tension is also what drives them together in the present. When Lucy and John stand outside of a loading dock after running into each other at the wedding, it’s sensual gazes and the devastating act of tracing the outline of one another with their fingers that solidify their chemistry.

“One person is trying their best to not kiss [the other], and the other person [is] available for a kiss,” says Song. “That tension is really what built that chemistry more than anything because he has to look her up and down without wanting to kiss her. He’s fighting the desire to kiss her, and that’s so much better than people just flirting and saying sexy things to each other.”

The emotional strain of the moment seems to recall Joe’s proposal scene toward the end of You’ve Got Mail, where Kathleen’s palpable overwhelm and Joe’s longing stare define the scene. “I think that Nora really understands yearning,” says Song.

Lucy’s Drink Order

In Ephron’s films, particularly her rom-coms, food is often a secondary character. It’s how the writer and director put aspects of herself into her films. When we think of When Harry Met Sally…, Sally’s (Meg Ryan) overly-detailed order for apple pie (heated, ice cream on the side but only if strawberry is available and if not no whipped cream) and a plain turkey sandwich on white bread at Katz’s Deli remain as iconic as the film itself.

One of the most memorable scenes from You’ve Got Mail features Kathleen (Ryan) chastising Joe (Tom Hanks) for hoarding all of the caviar instead of using it as a garnish. In Materialists, Lucy is very confident about her specific drink order when Harry offers to get one for her — a Coke and a beer. But before it’s even ordered, John appears with her drink order, after having already spotted his ex from across the room.

When Lucy’s Client Cries in Bed Before Her Wedding

In Ephron’s 1986 film Heartburn, based on her autobiographical novel of the same name, Rachel (Meryl Streep) is about to walk down the aisle for the second time, but she’s too nervous. As guests fill the ceremony, she’s splayed out in bed in her wedding dress as a rotating cast of characters come in to convince her to wed Mark (Jack Nicholson). In Materialists, Song used that scene as a direct “reference,” for a moment when one of Lucy’s clients gets cold feet before her big day and she goes to comfort her while she’s dressed in her wedding dress and crying in bed.

“I talk to everybody, the actors, the department heads, everyone, and I just say, ‘Remember that scene?’ And because, of course, everybody’s watching all the movies that we agreed to watch together, they go, ‘Got it.’ And then we try to capture something in that,” says Song.

The Dialogue

One of the hallmarks of Ephron’s films is the dialogue. It’s witty, relatable and offers insight into universal themes like whether friendship can really exist between men and women, loneliness, finding love after loss and whether a gravitational pull is enough to make you fall in love. Song has always admired Ephron’s ability to “craft a conversation that changes a person’s life.”

Although Joe put Kathleen out of business in You’ve Got Mail, Kathleen still wanted the guy with the screen name NY152 to be him “so badly.” “There’s something very contradictory about what she wants,” Song says of Ephron. “[Joe] did something so terrible to her in a way, too, even though in spite of that, [Kathleen] still wanted it to be him.”

Just like Ephron, Song used a “complete contradiction” in the dialogue of Materialists. “In the beginning of the film, [Lucy] says, ‘I want somebody who is mind-numbingly rich.’ And then at the end, her boss is asking, ‘What are you going to do instead of being a matchmaker?’ She goes, ‘I don’t know. Marry someone poor,'” explains Song.

There’s another “trick” Song pulled from Ephron — turning words and sentences that are not in other contexts romantic, romantic. Like Harry’s speech about Sally’s quirks at the end of When Harry Met Sally… or Joe’s casual proposal at the end of You’ve Got Mail, Song plays with the way Lucy uses the word “deal” in the movie and how John says he’s “been doing some math” about a potential romance.

“That’s not very romantic in any other context, but in this context, it’s a very romantic thing,” says Song. “And of course, the most romantic line in the whole film, which sounds like it’s from Succession, goes, ‘How would you like to make a very bad financial decision?'”

The Conversation Around Harry’s Limb-Lengthening Surgery

In Materialists, the idea that some men opt for cosmetic surgery to be taller comes up more than once. But the way it’s presented draws parallels to one of Ephron’s thought-provoking rom-com conversations, like the orgasm scene in When Harry Met Sally…. “Nora’s not afraid of talking about the real s—,” says Song. “She’s not really afraid of that, and she’s very interested in talking about gender pretty openly.”

Like Ephron, Song wanted to be “fair” to men. “Her girls are so amazing, they’re so brilliant, funny and charming and so unafraid to be unlikable, and then also to fight and be completely adorable,” says Song. “But she’s really fair to men. The men are so charming, so kind and so cool, and they’re also fighting for love as well.”

In an effort to do that, Song gave Harry — who is perceived to be a “unicorn” in the dating world — a storyline where he reveals he had limb-lengthening surgery. “I think it is quite true that women in the dating marketplace are crushed, they’re destroyed by it, and they’re very objectified in it, and it’s a very difficult place,” says Song. “But the truth is that it crushes men just as much. Maybe not as much, but it does crush men, this commodification and objectification of ourselves in the dating market.”

The New York City Apartments

In Ephron’s rom-coms, N.Y.C. apartments tout cozy lived-in interiors that feel rather real when compared to the timeless elegance of Nancy Meyers’ kitchens. Song opted to take a more realistic approach like Ephron when it came to the apartments. “It always surprises me when N.Y.C. apartments just look too nice, and then they’re supposed to be a broke artist or something,” says Song. “To me, I think the authenticity of these apartments, they’re hugely important.”

In the film, John, a struggling actor, lives with several roommates in a run-down Queens apartment, while Harry is a successful broker living in a multi-million-dollar penthouse. “Nora’s just interested in N.Y.C. — the difficult parts and also the fun parts,” says Song.

The Final Scene in Central Park

For Song, one of the “most romantic shots” are the beautiful walk-and-talks in When Harry Met Sally… between the two main protagonists. “Central Park is just one of the most romantic places on Earth, and what I love best about it is that it’s open to everyone. You don’t have to have money,” she says. Like Ephron, who she describes as a “big park filmmaker,” Song is “always thinking about how to depict a beautiful New York City park.”

So, she too, decided to feature Central Park in her rom-com — in the final scenes between Lucy and John. It felt emblematic of the pairing, considering the luxe places Harry would take Lucy. “Some of those places you cannot walk in without [being] willing to spend hundreds of dollars, if not thousands,” notes Song.

Materialists is now in theaters.